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The Face of Hatred
An Interview with Matthew Hale, World Church of the Creator

by Scott D. Gillette


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I began by asking Matthew Hale if an individual like myself, who is half-Jewish by ethnicity, hypothetically could join his organization. He said the rule is that a member has to be a quarter Jewish or less, and that "the individual must be free of Jewish features and dispositions." When I asked Mr. Hale why the quarter rule should apply, he said, "Look, there have been taints in the white race. There is a Jewish physiology, as Alan Greenspan and Ruth Bader Ginsberg have Jewish facial characteristics. The Jews are a hard group to classify, but there is such a thing as a Jewish mindset. They gravitate towards pornography, and they are the group that keeps that industry running. That’s why the pornographic business collapsed as soon as Hitler banned it when he came to power.

Hale then expounded on the basis of the Jewish faith: "I think for the Jews, religion has been a tool as opposed to a sincere belief. It’s been designed to unite themselves and to give them a superiority complex. The Bible is full of such lines: 'Bless those who bless thee, and curse those who curse thee'. Actually, The New Testament is designed to give white people an inferiority complex. Look at Karl Marx, Trotsky and most of the founding members of the Soviet Bolshevik Party: they were all Jewish." When I asked Hale about Orthodox Jews who are clearly dedicated to the original Talmud as opposed to any secular or political goals, Hale acknowledged a certain type of respect for this particular group. "But let me define respect: When I say I respect them, it doesn't mean that we like them. It's the same respect we would have for a rattlesnake for being a good rattlesnake."

When I asked Matthew Hale about the Holocaust, he did acknowledge that the Nazi leadership put the Jews in camps, "in order to separate them from the German public. We believe far less than 6,000,000 individuals died, and the number is closer to 250,000, as the Red Cross itself estimated in 1945. There were deaths and beatings, and there were many Jews who died from typhus at the end of the war. But from our standpoint, it isn’t our concern what happened to the Jews more than 50 years ago." Lisa Turner, the head of the Woman's Frontier, was blunter:  "The Holyhoax is an exaggerated fairy tale designed to instill guilt in White People worldwide, and keep the bandit state of Israel in business." 

I proceeded to ask Hale about the following quote he once made: “The white race as the race that has created all worthwhile culture and progress on this planet." I offered that the “supremacy” of the West, is a very short-lived phenomenon in the span of human history, as China has had a more advanced civilization from the beginning records of human history until 200 years ago. Hale responded by stating that the Babylonians, who were members of the white race, were responsible for the creation of Chinese civilization, and mummified remains in China bear out the fact that whites played a decisive role in ancient Chinese civilization. He added that it was only when the whites were kicked out of China did its civilization stagnate over a period of centuries.

I then asked Hale how the white race could be considered the most intelligent and genetically gifted race, when recent scientific research showed that human beings across the planet share the same genetic structure. He replied that there was a 98.5% similarity between white people and chimpanzees, but nobody would say a white person is like a chimpanzee.

He added that our civilization is being "negrified" and "jewified", and that is degrading the white race. "We are the masters of the world, and the elite. We want to purge our culture of black influences. Soon enough, white people will naturally gravitate back to their culture." 

When asked if he thought that American culture is becoming less hospitable to the notion that the white race should separate itself from other races, Hale responded: "We’re winning the battle. The attacks upon us are increasing, but among the masses, more people are receptive. Our founder, Ben Klassen, warned that the problem would get worse before it got better. Just because one side has the upper hand temporarily doesn’t mean you should get out of the game."

Hale was inspired to join the World Church of the Creator after reading Ben Klassen's book, "Nature's Eternal Religion". Hale had always considered himself a racist and racialist, and read Hitler's Mein Kampf at the age of 12,but Klassen's book, which he described as "the synthesis of National Socialism and Nietzsche", was "the best book ever written."

Klassen committed suicide in 1993, at the age of 75. Hale explained that Klassen's decision was not dishonorable. "He did leave a letter, saying that he lived a full life, he was in failing health, and he did not want to live in a crippled state. A person should have an option, if they choose, to cancel their life. In a lot of ways, we are libertarian. When it comes to death, like the Romans or Greeks, there is no shame in death. We are a religion without a god, and we are not guided by Christian precepts about suicide, and many other things."

I asked Hale about the influence of Hitler and the German Nazi Party on the WCOTC, and Hale pointed out three differences: "First, we believe that our cause should include all white people and not just German. Second, we are a religious organization and we have no interest in participating in the dirty compromises of politics. Finally, we believe that Nazism was too personality-driven, which hurt that movement in the end. We would want to create a movement that would thrive even if something would happen to one of our leaders. Put simply, our mythos is not German militarism but the winning of the West."

This "winning of the West" involves the creation of an American society that is white only, which is the WCOTC's ultimate goal. Hale said that he would be willing for to use government funds to resettle minorities around the globe, but they would have to leave the country. I asked Hale how his organization's rejection of violence squares with its plan to expel every Jewish and non-white individual in the country, since there would be many non-white individuals who would not comply.  "We would create a constitutional order, in which violence would not be necessary, but individuals would be required to obey the law. If non-whites decide not to obey the law, we would have the right to enforce it by taking appropriate measures."

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© Scott D. Gillette, 2001

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